Ep 1 - TWENTICA - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Seb, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I notice the DVD subtitles have "expanoids". However, I trust "exponoids".

    I get the impression DVD subtitles are done by external contractors who don't have access to the scripts. Often, unclear bits are skipped entirely (I note that "up, up, up the ziggurat" - with the odd pronunciation of "ziggur-aught" - was glossed over as "up, up up..." in at least one episode of one DVD release). The Micro Bollington, too, was left off the Dimension Jump subs. I've seen clear mistakes in DVD subtitles where the transcriber seems to have misheard something.

    EDIT: The problem is the possibility of a "second generation" compound word. If that's the case, there's no guarantee that a coinage will make etymological sense.

    First gen compound words are fairly straightforward. Consider:

    al kuhl ("the eye make-up" - later, "the distilled substance") + ic = alcoholic

    andro ("male") + oid ("of similar shape to") = android

    The problem is when compound words get chopped up at arbitrary points, to make new morphemes, which aren't necessarily "watertight" in terms of etymology.

    E.g., suffixes like -oholic (addict) and -droid (robot) contain redundant fragments of morphemes, which don't always relate to the coinage at hand (namely, the ohol from alcohol, and the dr from andro). Words like "chocoholic" and the (decidely not man-shaped!) "omnidroid" don't make etymological sense, unless you know their somewhat convoluted history.

    The simplest explanation is that the antagonists in Twentica are called expon-oids. However, it's possible that mechanoids gave -anoid as a suffix (similar to -droid) - making exp-anoids a possible coinage, in the same camp as "chocoholic" and "omnidroid".

    However, without access to the original scripts, I cite Occam's Razor in favour of exponoid. If future episodes of Red Dwarf have piganoids and cowanoids, I might reconsider :-)
     
  2. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    This is why I don't trust captions to save my life.... Having gone through the entire run with captions on, it's clear they can't be relied on for accuracy. My favorite is in Series VIII when Kill Crazy called Kryten "Droid Boy", and the captions said "Toy Boy".

    It just makes my job all the more difficult.

    [EDIT]: Smack my head.... moving on to Samsara, they spelled Mine-opoly "Mynopoly"... despite the fact that it's SPELLED RIGHT THERE ON THE DAMNED GAME BOARD! AND, they spell Rimmer's nickname, the Mine-otaur, "The Minotaur", which is how you actually spell the mythological creature's name, making the joke fall completely flat for anyone actually dependent on the subtitles.

    I give up.
     
  3. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Please don't; you're doing a cracking job 8)
     
  4. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    LOL... Oh, It's all tongue-in-cheek... I just give up trying to understand where they get these spellings from. Is it too much to ask that they get a copy of the script to work from? :-D
     
  5. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Actually, I give that a pass - I think respelling puns to make them clearer is optional, not mandatory.
     
  6. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    It's one thing if the pronunciation were the same ("Sole vs Soul" for Lister's shoe story, for example) but in this case the pronunciation was what made the joke work, and without making that clear, it doesn't make sense. Why would they call him a Minotaur?
     
  7. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Aha! It is the same :-)

    In British English, "minotaur" is normally pronounced "mine-uh-tor". "Minner-tor" is more common in US English. Rimmer would have pronounced it like that either way.
     
  8. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    Like I said earlier on 1st watch I wasn't totally sure but now it is my 2nd favourite episode of the entire 2016 run probably. It shows great progression from the already very good and solid series 10 with its genuine series 3 to 6 feel. Also it is nice for there to be, like Lemons, another even more ambitious episode set back on Earth again and it was great to see the Starbug interior for the first time too.
     
  9. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    Okay, now that I've got some time I'm rewatching all of series XI in preparation for series XII (yes, a bit of a way off, but I've got some time now). I intend to watch all the episodes, and then the bonus features, and basically do my thoughts on all of it. So, starting off with Twentica...

    When I originally watched it, I thought that Twentica looked absolutely fantastic. The sets, the costumes, the sets, the... sets? Yep, the sets. Absolutely brilliant. Starbug crash looked disjointed, I'd say, but had a good bit of gravity when it came to rest. But I have to say the model shots mostly weren't that great.

    The episode itself felt like an average episode of Doctor Who - which would be a good thing for a lot of shows, but not for Red Dwarf. This was always supposed to be the first episode, I feel, because it needs the least amount of knowledge to watch. Samsara probably would have turned off a few people with its complexity, and the others need a bit of prior knowledge about the characters.

    But I really dislike these kind of episodes in ANY show, even Doctor Who. Hey, we've got to travel through time to stop our enemies, and we'll stop our enemies by gathering some clues and doing some sluething. Really dislike them. And that just turns me off completely. Plus the premise of the episode just isn't that great when you get to Red Dwarf - would the Dwarfers really risk everything to save humanity, when it doesn't seem to affect them (which of course led to Lister, I think saying "if this has got rid of evolution, why am I still here?", followed by Cat's excellent "maybe you didn't qualify" - or something along those lines - which was an excellent little joke). We know that the only reason in Tikka To Ride that the Dwarfers helped the situation was because they couldn't return to Starbug.

    However, the idea of an alternative America where technology is outlawed was a good one, and mostly well realised. The sets - good God the sets were fantastic. Having just seen this again, it does look like an average episode of Doctor Who - which isn't bad, considering the difference in the budget. Given that this had no location shooting and was all done in a studio, it is bloody fantastic. The other sets used too looked great, and this is of course our first look at the new Starbug (or, for those of us who managed to get into some of the recordings, our first look at it in proper lighting etc).

    The jokes - what was there mostly worked. There were some flat ones, for me the whole speakeasy theory stuff didn't work. I wasn't keen on the idea (felt it was a bit too wacky) and the ever-repeating sexual metaphors as science jokes were just annoying. Also the whole hostage negotiation bit was, strangely, something which I liked a bit on rewatches, but found boring and predictable first time round.

    But there were some great jokes. Jump-starting Kryten was excellent, and seeing him power-walking around Starbug's cramped cockpit really worked, as well as Kryten's "bobbing for apples in a cement mixer". Cat at the start caving in to the Exponoids. The Exponoids in general. The whole cliche running joke.

    This, for me, feels like another "series opener" episode, similar to Psirens and Tikka To Ride. There's no real need for the viewer to know about the characters (this works in Psirens because they're reintroduced). There's time travel for no real reason. It's good and it's safe.

    Though I dislike the ending scene - felt a bit too "preachy", or just unnecessary. Wish we'd have had another one to round things up and go out on a different note.
     
  10. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    This is a quality review but for me Twentica is definitely in my top 3 of series 11 episodes, might be 2nd. The sets, visuals etc. I totally agree with you about - it is astonishing and unprecedented what Doug etc have achieved with such a low budget for this Dave era episode.

    But for me in terms of plot although it was very Doctor Who I didn't mind that as that might have broadened its appeal (DW is my 2nd favourite TV show of all time!) and also it had plenty of the vintage era series 3 to 6 Red Dwarf to go with it in terms of story and feel, so the DW theme was counter-balanced perfectly IMHO.

    I would also personally disagree about the speakeasy scene as this has a real Backwards feel to it with the bar etc. On first viewing I did find the repeated sexual innuendos overlong and like you say annoying but on future watches they really grew on me for some reason. I agree the hostage negotiation scene at the start was quality and also like you said it introduced the glorious new Starbug set sensationally.

    One other point for me the final scene worked out well IMHO. It gave the episode a proper end and I found the technology gag funny and it linked back well to the main plot.

    But yes you have written a strong review and it is good to hear someone else's opinion.
     
  11. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    2 years on from last watching it and in Twentica I can see a real step up in class from the previous series. Series 10 was very good and solid but this is - while still not reaching the perfection of the Rob Grant co-written years - tighter than that 2012 run and it is amazing how this smaller budget than 10 has been stretched so far to make Red Dwarf look so amazing again. I guess despite the less money, the production problems that had been with 10 were resolved for 11 and the production values are incredible and some of the best Dwarf ever. It was funny for a lot of the episode and I cannot understand why Twentica has had quite a lot of criticism from some quarters because it has the most authentic Dwarfy feel for a Red Dwarf show in a long time.

    I rest my case at immediately after I finished watching I wanted to see the next episode but as I tend to just watch one at a time then that is the only reason why Samsara will probably be later. Rating - 9 out of 10 still and one of the best 6 Red Dwarf shows in the back-to-back filmed mid-2010s series.
     
  12. TongueTiedMateyBoy

    TongueTiedMateyBoy Third Technician

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    I must admit I've not watched it since I first watched my DVD when it first came out :redface:
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    In looking back at this episode, there are still parts that bug me.

    The cliche joke i feel really doesn't work because Red Dwarf is a long-running series that has bounced off these Cliches itself previously and probably will continue to do so under Doug himself... so its almost mocking the villains thinking its clever without realizing that the show is mocking itself in many ways.

    Some of the guest cast were abit over played too. some feel the American accents were abit too broad and to me it seems intentionally done to try and be more funny... and thats kind of a shame really.

    I also didn't like the slag me off line... i suppose part of me was hoping they would be more serious villains like in the early days but that lines does humanize them to silly degrees.

    If it wasn't for those things, i think id like the episode abit better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  14. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    An excellent episode - definitely my favourite of the Dave era. The episode's most important quality was that for me it was the first episode since Out of Time that felt like an episode of Red Dwarf.
     
  15. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    I wouldn't say it is my absolute favourite of the Dave-era as IMHO Give and Take is the greatest Red Dwarf show since series 6 ended but Twentica is definitely one of the very greatest of the 21st century material and trumps anything from the albeit very good series 10. Like you say, very vintage and it is a shame that some fans look down on it quite a lot.
     
  16. Asclepius

    Asclepius Deck Sergeant

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    Twentica don't have one thing and it's conversational humour. Red Dwarf is usually full of great lines, but in Twentica there's just few of them.
    The reason is there's no time for that. The episode is very quick.
    I don't say it's bad, but it does not feel as vintage Dwarf for me.
     
  17. Dave_B_Phillps

    Dave_B_Phillps First Technician

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    thanks see you all next week
     

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